Tuesday, October 12, 2004
[catholicACT] RE: Invisible Church - "I can worship God at home"; "Me and Jesus"
hi no name,
Just to add some core Christian beliefs:
Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man; in the Bible, he calls himself the Son of God, and the Son of Man; he claims to be the Messiah-King anticipated by the Jews in the Old Testament; he comes as a Saviour of all men; Salvation is through faith by grace alone; "through" faith means works of faith must be present, and the faith that works by charity is what counts for salvation. Salvation is accomplished for the whole world through the shedding of his blood on the Cross. Faith is the beginning of salvation, and faith itself is a gift of God. Therefore, it is profitable to pray to God for this gift of faith.
These beliefs are adhered to by all Christian groups, though some may express it in different words. Some Protestants may express it this way: salvation (or justification) is by faith alone (without works, or as if works do not count). What they normally mean is that good works follow faith, and good works are evidence of real faith. Catholics normally do not say "faith alone", because it is very misleading. We say, salvation is by faith AND works, together, and not to be separated. (Not by faith alone; and not by works alone; both faith and works come by God's grace).
~~~
Glory be to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Matthew Tan Yew Hock
Just to add some core Christian beliefs:
Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man; in the Bible, he calls himself the Son of God, and the Son of Man; he claims to be the Messiah-King anticipated by the Jews in the Old Testament; he comes as a Saviour of all men; Salvation is through faith by grace alone; "through" faith means works of faith must be present, and the faith that works by charity is what counts for salvation. Salvation is accomplished for the whole world through the shedding of his blood on the Cross. Faith is the beginning of salvation, and faith itself is a gift of God. Therefore, it is profitable to pray to God for this gift of faith.
These beliefs are adhered to by all Christian groups, though some may express it in different words. Some Protestants may express it this way: salvation (or justification) is by faith alone (without works, or as if works do not count). What they normally mean is that good works follow faith, and good works are evidence of real faith. Catholics normally do not say "faith alone", because it is very misleading. We say, salvation is by faith AND works, together, and not to be separated. (Not by faith alone; and not by works alone; both faith and works come by God's grace).
~~~
Glory be to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Matthew Tan Yew Hock
----- Original Message -----From: Matthew Tan Yew HockSent: Monday, October 11, 2004 12:54 AMSubject: Re: [catholicACT] RE: Invisible Church - "I can worship God at home"; "Me and Jesus"
hi,
The writer Tim Gallant is a reformed Protestant. His criticism is aimed at the Protestant believers in general, many of them believe in the so-called "invisible church" made up of "true believers". They believe that as long as you truly believe in Christ, you belong to this "invisible church", regardless of your denomination; conversely, if one is a non-believer, then one does not belong to this "invisible church". So, his criticism is aimed at worshippers who claim to be "true believers", who choose not to adhere to any church, viewing it not necessary for Christian life and salvation.
The article is posted by Dave Armstrong on his blog site. Let me re-submit Dave's comment:
Another of my series of posts designed to show the significant "common ground" that Catholics and many of the more thoughtful and reflective Protestants (particularly of the Reformed variety) have; in this instance, pertaining to the nature of the Church. The following excerpts come from Reformed pastor Tim Gallant's sermon: Ephesians 2.19-22: "God's New Temple Under Construction"
Dave's purpose is to draw attention that there are Protestants (particularly the Reformed) who hold the Catholic theology that the Church of Christ is first and foremost visible, though we may agree that there is also an invisible, spiritual dimension. For Catholics, belonging to the Church is necessary; the sacraments (Baptism, Eucharist, Penance, etc.) of the Church are also necessary for sanctification and salvation. Dave is an ecumenical Catholic. That means, he seeks to foster Christian unity, and to do that, one needs to understand the Protestant theology and mentality in order to dialogue meaningfully with them.Catholicact is an ecumenical forum. An article like this will be of interest to many readers of this forum.I refer to your statement, "Until I am able to forgive and forget my sins..." It appears that you do not fall within the description of the original writer: "... I know that I'm saved...I don't need a church telling me what to do...".
Believers of Christ (Catholics and Protestants) do not normally say "I forgive my sins".
God forgives our sins, when we believe and trust in him, through faith in Jesus Christ, and this faith is followed through by receiving Baptism. You do not have to wait until you can forgive or forget your sins - in fact, you should not wait for that, and you do not even have to think about forgiving and forgetting your own sins. God's forgiveness is what you need, not you forgiving yourself - for salvation and Christian life, which formally begin at Baptism, and continue throughout one's life time by receiving the sacraments, prayer and worship, and living in good conscience.
You are at the stage of preparing yourself to receive Christ, and God will help you and fulfull your desire. May we all pray for you....
Moses' God and Christian God is one and the same. During the time of Moses, there was not a full revelation of God. When Jesus came, he taught his disciples that he himself was God, the "I AM" that Moses worshipped.
Jesus gave us the FULL revelation. And we understand the ONE God to consist of three Persons (or Beings) : Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Trinity). In other words, the Father is God, the Son Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God. And all three are ONE God, not three gods. This is the fundamental Christian belief, and it is through faith that we believe.
Yes, the Bible reveals the God of Moses, and the religion of the Jews - in the Old Testament. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are revealed in the New Testament.
You can get a Bible from many bookshops, Christian and secular. Of course, as Catholics, we recommend a Catholic Bible, which we believe is the FULL Bible, and it includes the deuterocanonical books.
An easily accessible place to buy a bible is the bookshop in Novena Church. The best time to buy is Saturday, because it is open throughout the day on Saturday (until around 8 pm). Any Catholic bible will do for starter. Choose one that you find easy to read. I find the "Ignatius - The Holy Bible - Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition" to be easy-to-read. Normally only Catholic bookshop sells Catholic Bibles.
I strongly recommend that you attend an RCIA class, or Alpha Course, at any Catholic Church. And come and join the ACT talks.
~~~
Glory be to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Matthew Tan Yew Hock----- Original Message -----From: no nameSent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 5:18 PMSubject: [catholicACT] RE: Invisible Church - "I can worship God at home"; "Me and Jesus"
Hi
I am refering to the article mentioned <<Invisible Church - "I can
worship God at home"; "Me and Jesus">>
Entitled: Reformed Protestants Take on the "Invisible Church"
We live in a time when even those who call themselves Christians
have given themselves over to a very extreme individualism and all
the sloppy thinking that that entails. Baptism is not seen as
necessary. The Church is not seen as necessary. Salvation is
understood as a personal, invisible encounter between the detached,
individual soul, and God. Church is at best a support, something
helpful to boost our faith, a place where we can learn things that
we have difficulty learning at home. In other words, going to church
is simply pragmatic - it's helpful.
Hi I believe this paragraph has negative tone set in its phrases
such as extreme individualism and all sloppy thinking. The paragraph
start to classify and categorise me as a reformed protestant. Why
the anger?
As I am still starting to know more about the God, I find myself
unfit to pray under his household of Saints(church). Until I am able
to forgive and forget my sins, I cannot be with my family yet. I
believe God will let me know when is the right time.
I just feel excited by the people who are excited about knowing God.
In the meantime, I try to learn more about God first.
Can anyone tell me if Moses' God is the same as Jesus' God? Don't
confuse a simple question by denominating God into Trinity. Thanks.
By the way, does Catholic or Protestant(as u call them) Bible record
moses and hebrew belief? If so, where can I buy the bible and what
is the name of the bible.
My own Quote: I believe I live on the world for a reason. A reason
created by God.
